Desirable Deficits

[Potorik]

hmmm, don't really know the answer to any of those [img]graemlins/ohwell.gif[/img] but I'm glad that the company still exists because I want to end up owning one when I'm older. And maybe it wasn't worthy of it, since I have never heard of Indian (I'm assuming it's another motorcycle co.), I guess that just shows that I really don't know much of the facts surrounding this issue, so I won't bring up Harley untill I get the facts straight, and most likely I'll end up agreeing with you guys, since I believe in pretty much the same things. [img]smile.gif[/img]

[TerryV]

Forgive me for I may be speaking out of turn, but I did not see this mentioned in some of the other posts. If it was and someone wants to show me, I promise I will not take offense. Still though, I did not see it mentioned that part of the "cheap production cost" problem is due to the fact that laws in many other countries where production is done, are a lot different than what we have here, and therefore the people who get the jobs doing the work, are usually exploited...in many cases by our own people. What I would love it to be able to see more tags when I shop for clothes, that specifically mention that the items were made here in the states, and not only see it, but know it is true. I say that because I remember seeing on the news once that when you travel in Europe, and see clothing that has a well known American name on them like Lee or Levi's; that they were not really true items from those brands but cheap knockups that were actually made in Europe, but then the "American Companies'" emblems were sewn on then put on the shelves to sell; (I think it was 60 Minutes I saw it on). Shoot I already drive an American car, (at least I THINK it is 100% American...*Grin*); my husband and I both own Saturns; I would gladly buy American clothing if I knew for sure they were American, and therefore not exploiting some cheap labor in some Third World, or Nearly Third World country...

[Taxman]

Potorik: Go here for more on Indian http://www.starklite.com/

TerryV: Sure, that has a lot to do with the reason third world countries have lower labor costs than we do. However, it doesn’t change the fact that they aren’t doing it because of us or to us. That’s the difference and that’s why a tariff isn’t warranted…

[TerryV]

True they are not doing it because of us Taxman, but because they need a job and a way to earn money, and I never meant to say whether or not this makes a tariff warented, but the deeper idea that much of our problem is the jobs that no longer exist here because of cheaper labor costs in other countries. Whether or not the people in the countries "do it to us or because of us", they are still being exploited because they will work for a lower wage than what a person here would recieve. Granted much of that is because of their lower cost of living, but they get paid even below their own min wage amount half the time. Then there is also the fact that the "employers" do not have to worry about things like benefits and insurance, etc... so that cuts the cost even further. It IS things like that that send the jobs out of the country, and therefore hurt our own economy...so instead of worrying about needless tariffs, maybe we should think about finding other ways to make the exploitation less profitable, and therefore center back on the idea of bringing the jobs back into the country...

[Taxman]

Terry, I know that this is going to make me sound like a jerk, but since when is it our government’s responsibility to protect the general welfare of another country's citizens? The problems that have caused low-skill jobs to move overseas are more complex than simply other countries having cheap labor. The vast majority of this problem rests at the feet of organized labor and OSHA.

[Chesty]

And what exactly would happen to the people from whom we take those low paying jobs ?

Those people are glad to get their $1 an hour.

And are you willing to sacrifice our standard of living via low cost goods for the purpose of keeping unskilled labor positions here in the States?

Lang's Metropolis pictures the world with the oppressed workers doing everything for the pampered Elite.

The truth is somewhere in the middle. The market determines what things cost. If the market is artificially propped up(like hemming a river with levies), it will eventually fail and fall catastrophically. The river will run its course!

It is a nice idea that the government is supposed to keep everybody in soup&nuts but it just ain't so.

The playing field isn't level, foreign workers sometimes have horrible conditions. It will cycle though.

Right now the next wave of workers with disposable income is coming from China - the home of slave labor. Seems that we have traded so much with China that they are having to pay people more money to get the job done. It is predicted that in the next five years China will be the newest boom economy - they will be buying stereos, DVD Players, new cars and more. before long another country (like maybe Ghana) will provide cheaper labor than China and so on.

It is just the way it is. It is better to be at peace with the way it is and find your way within that way, than to try and change the way.

This is the fundamental difference between fiscal conservatives and liberals. The conservative studies what has worked in the past and impliments plans to capitalize on the way the world works while the liberal sees what they would like the world to be and then struggles to change the world.

Ecclesiastes 1:9
The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.

[PeterS]

taxman wrote:Agreed, but what people are forgetting in this is that the reason we have $50 DVD players and $30 color printers is that labor costs are so low. How many of you are willing to pay $500 for that same DVD player or $300 for that same printer? An exaggeration to be sure, but not by much.

I don’t disagree but mostly we are talking about durable goods. The printer I am currently using is about 4 years old so would I pay would I pay $75 a year for a higher paying job or a more secure job? Sure.

And this is a problem. Business Week just did a series on this and this year, according to Forester Research, we outsourced 588K jobs mostly to India, China, Mexico, and the Phillippines and by 2015 we are expected to outsource 3.3M per year. Clearly there is a breaking point some where because these are not low paying jobs but our best high tech and profession position.

I don’t like the idea of tariffs nor do I want to scrap WTO but outsourcing places downward pressure on all jobs so it becomes a question of whether deflation is sufficient to offset the loss of income growth. If it isn’t then we will be in a world of hurt.