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Dubya's Domain (Current Events & News Forum) A Current Events Forum Dedicated To Our 43rd President - George W. Bush.

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Old 10-20-2005, 11:48 AM
Carolyn Hileman's Avatar
Carolyn Hileman Carolyn Hileman is offline
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Separation of church and state?

Separation of church and state?
Written by: Carolyn Hileman

There must be several copies of the constitution floating around because there are a bunch of liberals going around saying that there is a clause in our constitution that says separation of church and state. I find that very interesting as the copy I have has only one reference to religion and that is that congress is supposed to leave it alone. So I am asking you to do me a big favor, I know it is big because reading through the constitution and the bill of rights can be very tedious. I want you, Mr. and Mrs. Common every day person to look at the constitution and bill of right and see if you can even find those words.

You see these liberals can get away with this hog wash because they know most of us aren’t even going to look to see. Now don’t get me wrong they would love to amend the constitution to include it but they dare not because then there would be proof it was never there. They are using our ignorance to stop the rebuilding efforts of the government to rebuild churches damaged by the hurricane, they use our ignorance to keep our children from praying in school, they use our ignorance to keep churches from speaking out in the political arena, and in short they use our ignorance to control us.

You have to understand most Americans live by that piece of paper, after all it was handed down to us by our forefathers it was fought and died for. So if someone tells us that we can’t do something because it is unconstitutional we will stop, we won’t check it out because they are educated and they know much more than us. Yes they are smart, so smart that they will use their expertise to lead you down a dead end road just because they can. But not us, not today because today we get educated, today we learn the truth and tomorrow we spread it.

Bill of Rights
Amendment I
Congress shall make no ( rejection, refusal) law ( rule ) respecting ( with regard to) an establishment ( organization) of religion, or prohibiting ( barring ) the free exercise ( implementation ) thereof;

Now it may just be me, but I just do not see anything in that amendment that says that church must be separated from state. It could be that I didn’t look hard enough; it may be in there some where so if you can find it and prove to me that those words are there well by all means enlighten me. However, if you search the constitution and bill of rights and can’t find it, don’t feel alone because I couldn’t either. I must confess I thought it was there myself for a long time, I mean the ACLU said it was there so it must be right? Then one day I wanted to read it for myself, and this was the only thing I found about religion and it was right the opposite of what they said. I don’t like being lied to; I don’t like the media acting as though those fools know what they are talking about when they either know it is a lie or are as clueless as them. So I decided to get the truth out and I think you will be just as angry as I was and do exactly the same thing. Separation of church and state?
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Old 10-21-2005, 12:34 PM
EC Boarder EC Boarder is offline
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LOL @ Carolyn.

You are the type of Republican that gives the Republican party a bad name. You write nonsense that you know you aren’t able to defend when questioned at your blog website. You try to hide out and post your blog entry here where people won’t challenge it and may praise it.

The Republican Party needs people who are willing and able to defend their ideas, not run away and hide. The Republican Party, like a true conservative, should embrace the separation of church and state doctrine to ensure religious freedom.

Lets start this discussion by looking at what the guy who wrote the Declaration of Independence believed about the separation of church and state.

January 1, 1802
Gentlemen,

The affectionate sentiments of esteem and approbation which you are so good as to express towards me, on behalf of the Danbury Baptist Association, give me the highest satisfaction. My duties dictate a faithful and zealous pursuit of the interests of my constituents, and in proportion as they are persuaded of my fidelity to those duties, the discharge of them becomes more and more pleasing.

Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man and his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legislative powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between church and State.

Adhering to this expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of the rights of conscience, I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights, convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties.
I reciprocate your kind prayers for the protection and blessing of the common Father and Creator of man, and tender you for yourselves and your religious association, assurances of my high respect and esteem.

Thomas Jefferson President of the United States
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Old 10-21-2005, 12:35 PM
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Lets look at what James Madison thought about the separation of church and state.

The civil Government, though bereft of everything like an associated hierarchy, possesses the requisite stability, and performs its functions with complete success, whilst the number, the industry, and the morality of the priesthood, and the devotion of the people, have been manifestly increased by the total separation of the church from the State (Letter to Robert Walsh, Mar. 2, 1819).
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Old 10-21-2005, 12:36 PM
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Now Lets look at a ruling the US Supreme Court has made regarding the separation of church and state.

Everson v. Board of Education (1947)

The "establishment of religion" clause of the First Amendment means at least this: Neither a state nor the Federal Government can set up a church. Neither can pass laws which aid one religion, aid all religions, or prefer one religion over another. Neither can force nor influence a person to go to or to remain away from church against his will or force him to profess a belief or disbelief in any religion. No person can be punished for entertaining or professing religious beliefs or disbeliefs, for church attendance or non-attendance. No tax in any amount, large or small, can be levied to support any religious activities or institutions, whatever they may be called, or whatever form they may adopt to teach or practice religion. Neither a state nor the Federal Government can, openly or secretly, participate in the affairs of any religious organizations or groups and vice versa. In the words of Jefferson, the clause against establishment of religion by law was intended to erect "a wall of separation between church and State."
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Old 10-21-2005, 12:44 PM
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EC, take your beef with Carolyn somewhere else. If I didn't know better I would say you are stalking her. Either way it's not welcome here. [img]graemlins/bored.gif[/img]

So...

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Old 10-21-2005, 05:06 PM
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Thanks Finman he has been stalking me and I refuse to entertain him
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Old 10-21-2005, 05:59 PM
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Here is where the moron came from warning be prepared to be disgusted....
http://www.topfreeforum.com/forum/vi...=endorphincult
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Old 10-21-2005, 06:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Carolyn Hileman:
Here is where the moron came from warning be prepared to be disgusted

....http://www.topfreeforum.com/forum/vi...=endorphincult
I didn't even bother to read what he wrote as that wasn't my problem with him. It was the fact that he seemed to be stalking one of our members.

As far as that other board, they better keep their filth over there. No board that has ever tried to troll here hasn't regretted the experience. We aren't playful when it comes to trolls or other would-be troublemakers. [img]graemlins/bored.gif[/img]
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Old 10-21-2005, 07:35 PM
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First, to Carolyn: I saw another post where you got hurt by some flamer, and I wanted to make sure you didn't think I was involved...I wasn't...but I couldn't find the link again to apologize to you...so I am doing so now.

Incidentally,SCOTUS has made a LOT of decisions that are contrary to the Constitution...and it seems to me that if Jefferson or Madison or any of the founding fathers meant that the phrase "CONGRESS shall make no law" should include whether Brownie Scouts can sing Christmas carols at a church, it would have been enumerated as such. These were brilliant men, as prescient as anything other than the Scriptures. The only thing they could not see is how their words would have been adulterated by those with secular fears.
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Old 02-08-2006, 10:30 AM
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Dear Carolyn Hileman:

You wrote:
There must be several copies of the constitution floating around because there are a bunch of liberals going around saying that there is a clause in our constitution that says separation of church and state.

James Madison says:
Is there a clause in the U. S. Constitution that says the government may establish and maintain an Air Force; should we give Louisianna back to the French; and where did the people ever give Congress any advisory authority in religious matters?
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