Welcome to the RonaldReagan.com Forums.

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact contact us.

Go Back   RonaldReagan.com Forums > General > Liberalism Vs. Conservatism (Debate Forum)

Liberalism Vs. Conservatism (Debate Forum) It isn't that Liberals are ignorant. It's just that they know so much that isn't so. - Ronald Reagan

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 05-24-2007, 12:29 AM
BFranklin76's Avatar
BFranklin76 BFranklin76 is offline
State Governor
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 260
Rep Power: 3236140
BFranklin76 has a reputation beyond reputeBFranklin76 has a reputation beyond reputeBFranklin76 has a reputation beyond reputeBFranklin76 has a reputation beyond reputeBFranklin76 has a reputation beyond reputeBFranklin76 has a reputation beyond reputeBFranklin76 has a reputation beyond reputeBFranklin76 has a reputation beyond reputeBFranklin76 has a reputation beyond reputeBFranklin76 has a reputation beyond reputeBFranklin76 has a reputation beyond reputeBFranklin76 has a reputation beyond reputeBFranklin76 has a reputation beyond reputeBFranklin76 has a reputation beyond reputeBFranklin76 has a reputation beyond reputeBFranklin76 has a reputation beyond reputeBFranklin76 has a reputation beyond reputeBFranklin76 has a reputation beyond reputeBFranklin76 has a reputation beyond reputeBFranklin76 has a reputation beyond repute
BFranklin76 has a reputation beyond reputeBFranklin76 has a reputation beyond reputeBFranklin76 has a reputation beyond reputeBFranklin76 has a reputation beyond reputeBFranklin76 has a reputation beyond reputeBFranklin76 has a reputation beyond reputeBFranklin76 has a reputation beyond reputeBFranklin76 has a reputation beyond reputeBFranklin76 has a reputation beyond reputeBFranklin76 has a reputation beyond reputeBFranklin76 has a reputation beyond reputeBFranklin76 has a reputation beyond reputeBFranklin76 has a reputation beyond reputeBFranklin76 has a reputation beyond reputeBFranklin76 has a reputation beyond reputeBFranklin76 has a reputation beyond reputeBFranklin76 has a reputation beyond reputeBFranklin76 has a reputation beyond reputeBFranklin76 has a reputation beyond reputeBFranklin76 has a reputation beyond repute
AddThis Social Bookmark Button AddThis Feed Button

US Flag My faults with Libertarianism

Have you ever taken the Worlds Smallest Political Quiz? I have and I came out as a Libertarian.

I shuddered when I saw that.

It's not that I find fault with their idea of individualism. In fact, i favor it over the socialism being sold to American society by the Democrats. I agree with them over gun rights and that the government taxes the people too much. I agree with adult consentual sex (more on this) and that we should all be able to practice our religion freely without harassment (Democrats should take note). They believe in the right to own and do what you will with your own property and believe in a right to privacy. Libertarians believe in smaller government ... and so do I. For awhile, Libertarians and I seem to travel the same path joyfully ... but then we hit that proverbial crossroads and that is where we go our seperate ways.

1. Abortion: Libertarians are decidedly pro-choice. Their platform speaks of being responsible but yet complains about the burden of an unwanted pregnancy. With the lone exception of rape, where was the responsibility for not getting pregnant? How much are condoms? $7.50 - $8 a box? How easier is it just not to have sex? On their website they claim that life is sacred. If it is sacred, how can you condone abortion?

2. Sexuality and Gender: I agree that what two adults do behind closed doors is their own business. I really didn't care that Bill Clinton fooled around with Monica Lewisnky and neither should anyone else have. I don't care if you are gay but why does it have to be in the open? As I said, what you do behind closed doors is your concern. Do I have to see it?

3. Pornography: Libertarians are proponents of pornography. Again, if it were just between two adults, I could care less. I dont rent the stuff nor do I watch it on the Internet. But ... now pornography is using underage children (who are not adults nor do they have the ability to decide what they want to do in life). The industry also tricks and lures foreign women into it as well. Pornography is now involved with human trafficking. Somehow, sex slavery just doesn't fit into a theory of personal responsibility.

4. Persuasion vs Force: Um.. Somehow, i don't think that friendly persuasion is ever going to convince a criminal or a terrorist with a gun to lay down their arms or to not rob a house. Friendly persuasion is not going to stop drugs, prostitution or any other crime in this nation. Police are necessary to protect innocent people from villains.

5. Welfare: Libertarians want to do away with completely and rely totally on charities. If only every person in America were that giving. We're not. I think welfare should stay but it must be made clear that there will be a timetable for it. It's not a inheritance to pass onto your children.

6. Draft: Libertarians are against a draft and think that military service should be strictly voluntary. I don't see a slew of people lining up to fight in Iraq. While there are men playing video games and getting drunk, others are in country in Afghanistan and Iraq for their third or fourth tour of duty. So much for patriotism.

7. Make drugs legal: I have personal fault with this idea. I have lost 2 very close friends to drugs. One was so high he slammed his car into the front end of a tractor trailer. The other, has burnt his brain cells to the point where he wanders public square and cannot remember his own name. Legalize drugs? I don't think so.

Sadly, we agree on many things but we also agree to disagree on others.

I respect the conservatism and individualism of Libertarians, but that is where we must part. Although, they do have my respect.
__________________
Politics I supposed to be the second-oldest profession. I have come to realize that it bears a very close resemblance to the first. ~ Ronald Reagan
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 05-24-2007, 04:36 AM
fjccommish fjccommish is offline
U.S. President
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 952
Rep Power: 119788
fjccommish has a reputation beyond reputefjccommish has a reputation beyond reputefjccommish has a reputation beyond reputefjccommish has a reputation beyond reputefjccommish has a reputation beyond reputefjccommish has a reputation beyond reputefjccommish has a reputation beyond reputefjccommish has a reputation beyond reputefjccommish has a reputation beyond reputefjccommish has a reputation beyond reputefjccommish has a reputation beyond reputefjccommish has a reputation beyond reputefjccommish has a reputation beyond reputefjccommish has a reputation beyond reputefjccommish has a reputation beyond reputefjccommish has a reputation beyond reputefjccommish has a reputation beyond reputefjccommish has a reputation beyond reputefjccommish has a reputation beyond reputefjccommish has a reputation beyond repute
fjccommish has a reputation beyond reputefjccommish has a reputation beyond reputefjccommish has a reputation beyond reputefjccommish has a reputation beyond reputefjccommish has a reputation beyond reputefjccommish has a reputation beyond reputefjccommish has a reputation beyond reputefjccommish has a reputation beyond reputefjccommish has a reputation beyond reputefjccommish has a reputation beyond reputefjccommish has a reputation beyond reputefjccommish has a reputation beyond reputefjccommish has a reputation beyond reputefjccommish has a reputation beyond reputefjccommish has a reputation beyond reputefjccommish has a reputation beyond reputefjccommish has a reputation beyond reputefjccommish has a reputation beyond reputefjccommish has a reputation beyond reputefjccommish has a reputation beyond repute
AddThis Social Bookmark Button AddThis Feed Button

"I really didn't care that Bill Clinton fooled around with Monica Lewisnky and neither should anyone else have."

The only person that cared was Bill, that's why he lied about it in court.

Nobody cared he had sex with Monica. Even his wife didn't care. The problem was his lying about it while under oath.

What's odd about that test is that it doesn't ask questions about government's role in fighting wars. By ignoring that aspect, the test is heavily skewed towards libertarianism.
__________________
Visit ConservativeCrusader.com for the monthly Conservative of the Month. Have a suggestion for a Conservative of the Month? Email: fcabanski@conservativecrusader.com
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 05-24-2007, 10:22 AM
Batcivic's Avatar
Batcivic Batcivic is offline
U.S. President
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,646
Rep Power: 1054224
Batcivic has a reputation beyond reputeBatcivic has a reputation beyond reputeBatcivic has a reputation beyond reputeBatcivic has a reputation beyond reputeBatcivic has a reputation beyond reputeBatcivic has a reputation beyond reputeBatcivic has a reputation beyond reputeBatcivic has a reputation beyond reputeBatcivic has a reputation beyond reputeBatcivic has a reputation beyond reputeBatcivic has a reputation beyond reputeBatcivic has a reputation beyond reputeBatcivic has a reputation beyond reputeBatcivic has a reputation beyond reputeBatcivic has a reputation beyond reputeBatcivic has a reputation beyond reputeBatcivic has a reputation beyond reputeBatcivic has a reputation beyond reputeBatcivic has a reputation beyond reputeBatcivic has a reputation beyond repute
Batcivic has a reputation beyond reputeBatcivic has a reputation beyond reputeBatcivic has a reputation beyond reputeBatcivic has a reputation beyond reputeBatcivic has a reputation beyond reputeBatcivic has a reputation beyond reputeBatcivic has a reputation beyond reputeBatcivic has a reputation beyond reputeBatcivic has a reputation beyond reputeBatcivic has a reputation beyond reputeBatcivic has a reputation beyond reputeBatcivic has a reputation beyond reputeBatcivic has a reputation beyond reputeBatcivic has a reputation beyond reputeBatcivic has a reputation beyond reputeBatcivic has a reputation beyond reputeBatcivic has a reputation beyond reputeBatcivic has a reputation beyond reputeBatcivic has a reputation beyond reputeBatcivic has a reputation beyond repute
AddThis Social Bookmark Button AddThis Feed Button

There is no party I completely agree with anymore. I will say the democrats are wrong all the time.
I would lean my beliefs towards constitutionalist or liberatarian vs. current republican platform

#2 I care about it she was 23 years old and he was president. Says alot about character.

#3 Constitutionally what right do you have to stop it? Whether you like it or not the federal government has no right to stop it. Local municipalities however different story.

#5 They aren't? Look at donations to katrina and tsumnami relief. That being said the welfare of California is not Ohios expense. Welfare programs are covered during the constitutional convention. California can have all the welfare she wants constitutionally. And why am I paying for a house someone built below sea level in N.O.?

#6 I DO NOT want to have to go into a battle with a guy who was drafted when I have a volunteer next to me now. They can be more of a problem than your enemy. The lines at the recruiters office were longer than ever when there was support for this war.

#7 Constitutionally I don't believe I have the right to tell someone not to use drugs. Personal choice however you commit a crime on a drug I want to see you slammed and do not ask me to pay for your rehab because you were and idiot. I am ok with it being illegal because I know the bleeding hearts won't make thos epeople take responsibility for their actions.

Now that all being said the important thing to do here is break down job of the federal government vs. state governments.
__________________
Communism works only in heaven, where they don't need it, and in hell, where they've already got it ... Ronald Reagan
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 05-24-2007, 10:26 AM
politicalboy's Avatar
politicalboy politicalboy is offline
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 5,157
Rep Power: 4203469
politicalboy has a reputation beyond reputepoliticalboy has a reputation beyond reputepoliticalboy has a reputation beyond reputepoliticalboy has a reputation beyond reputepoliticalboy has a reputation beyond reputepoliticalboy has a reputation beyond reputepoliticalboy has a reputation beyond reputepoliticalboy has a reputation beyond reputepoliticalboy has a reputation beyond reputepoliticalboy has a reputation beyond reputepoliticalboy has a reputation beyond reputepoliticalboy has a reputation beyond reputepoliticalboy has a reputation beyond reputepoliticalboy has a reputation beyond reputepoliticalboy has a reputation beyond reputepoliticalboy has a reputation beyond reputepoliticalboy has a reputation beyond reputepoliticalboy has a reputation beyond reputepoliticalboy has a reputation beyond reputepoliticalboy has a reputation beyond repute
politicalboy has a reputation beyond reputepoliticalboy has a reputation beyond reputepoliticalboy has a reputation beyond reputepoliticalboy has a reputation beyond reputepoliticalboy has a reputation beyond reputepoliticalboy has a reputation beyond reputepoliticalboy has a reputation beyond reputepoliticalboy has a reputation beyond reputepoliticalboy has a reputation beyond reputepoliticalboy has a reputation beyond reputepoliticalboy has a reputation beyond reputepoliticalboy has a reputation beyond reputepoliticalboy has a reputation beyond reputepoliticalboy has a reputation beyond reputepoliticalboy has a reputation beyond reputepoliticalboy has a reputation beyond reputepoliticalboy has a reputation beyond reputepoliticalboy has a reputation beyond reputepoliticalboy has a reputation beyond reputepoliticalboy has a reputation beyond repute
AddThis Social Bookmark Button AddThis Feed Button

One must consider the source of those that drafted such a quiz, second the Country should care about reprobatical behavior in the executive mansion, just for the of sake argument, if thier was no affair with Monica, thier is no lie to the supreme court, thier would be no terms such as wag the dog, down through history that kind of thing has spelled trouble and doom for those involved texts prove this. A double minded man is unstable in all his ways, if he is unfaithfull in one area he will be in others, if he is unfaithfull to his wife do you really think he is going to be faithfull to his job? It would seem to me that he endangered the country because his guard was down and his thing was up and he paid more attention to the latter and became a threat to National Security.
Not that long ago the process was gone through with JFK, with a Mafia girlfriend, look at his fate, alot of people say it was his little brother backing out on a deal with the Mob to control the polls during the 60 election, the non fiction book Giancanna by Giancanna sais other factors were involved like a fumeing Sam Giancanna over the former Presidents inability to keep his hands off of Giancannas girlfriend. Anyway just wanted to throw that opinion out their because I feel it is valid.
__________________
UVA UVAM VIVENDO VARIA FIT
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 05-24-2007, 10:28 AM
RandomNY RandomNY is offline
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 5,167
Rep Power: 4264408
RandomNY has a reputation beyond reputeRandomNY has a reputation beyond reputeRandomNY has a reputation beyond reputeRandomNY has a reputation beyond reputeRandomNY has a reputation beyond reputeRandomNY has a reputation beyond reputeRandomNY has a reputation beyond reputeRandomNY has a reputation beyond reputeRandomNY has a reputation beyond reputeRandomNY has a reputation beyond reputeRandomNY has a reputation beyond reputeRandomNY has a reputation beyond reputeRandomNY has a reputation beyond reputeRandomNY has a reputation beyond reputeRandomNY has a reputation beyond reputeRandomNY has a reputation beyond reputeRandomNY has a reputation beyond reputeRandomNY has a reputation beyond reputeRandomNY has a reputation beyond reputeRandomNY has a reputation beyond repute
RandomNY has a reputation beyond reputeRandomNY has a reputation beyond reputeRandomNY has a reputation beyond reputeRandomNY has a reputation beyond reputeRandomNY has a reputation beyond reputeRandomNY has a reputation beyond reputeRandomNY has a reputation beyond reputeRandomNY has a reputation beyond reputeRandomNY has a reputation beyond reputeRandomNY has a reputation beyond reputeRandomNY has a reputation beyond reputeRandomNY has a reputation beyond reputeRandomNY has a reputation beyond reputeRandomNY has a reputation beyond reputeRandomNY has a reputation beyond reputeRandomNY has a reputation beyond reputeRandomNY has a reputation beyond reputeRandomNY has a reputation beyond reputeRandomNY has a reputation beyond reputeRandomNY has a reputation beyond repute
AddThis Social Bookmark Button AddThis Feed Button

Actually to your point on 5.

During the 80's(the decade that was called the DECADE OF GREED by the left because they hated Reagan) donations to charities were higher than during the 90's(when there was another boom to the economy, yet noone called that decade the decade of greed, hmmmm).

So if people get to keep more of their money they will donate more of their money. When taxes are high, most people feel they already gave at the office.

The government should not be in the charity business since, 70 cents of every dollar is wasted, while the Salvation Army and Red Cross on average run at a 5 cents per dollar adminstration cost....Those 2 charities collect billions every year in aid..

Our Founding Fathers were libertartians.... Limited government is just that limited government...

The government wastes money on everything it runs. There is zero incentive to run thing efficently...

There should be no welfare or government run schools or whatever else the Constitution does not specifically give the government the authority to run...
__________________
I pledge to treat Barry Milhouse Obama with the same respect that the left treated George W. Bush with for 8 years.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 05-24-2007, 03:09 PM
Taxman's Avatar
Taxman Taxman is offline
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 3,210
Rep Power: 1687386
Taxman has a reputation beyond reputeTaxman has a reputation beyond reputeTaxman has a reputation beyond reputeTaxman has a reputation beyond reputeTaxman has a reputation beyond reputeTaxman has a reputation beyond reputeTaxman has a reputation beyond reputeTaxman has a reputation beyond reputeTaxman has a reputation beyond reputeTaxman has a reputation beyond reputeTaxman has a reputation beyond reputeTaxman has a reputation beyond reputeTaxman has a reputation beyond reputeTaxman has a reputation beyond reputeTaxman has a reputation beyond reputeTaxman has a reputation beyond reputeTaxman has a reputation beyond reputeTaxman has a reputation beyond reputeTaxman has a reputation beyond reputeTaxman has a reputation beyond repute
Taxman has a reputation beyond reputeTaxman has a reputation beyond reputeTaxman has a reputation beyond reputeTaxman has a reputation beyond reputeTaxman has a reputation beyond reputeTaxman has a reputation beyond reputeTaxman has a reputation beyond reputeTaxman has a reputation beyond reputeTaxman has a reputation beyond reputeTaxman has a reputation beyond reputeTaxman has a reputation beyond reputeTaxman has a reputation beyond reputeTaxman has a reputation beyond reputeTaxman has a reputation beyond reputeTaxman has a reputation beyond reputeTaxman has a reputation beyond reputeTaxman has a reputation beyond reputeTaxman has a reputation beyond reputeTaxman has a reputation beyond reputeTaxman has a reputation beyond repute
AddThis Social Bookmark Button AddThis Feed Button

Smile

Quote:
Originally Posted by BFranklin76 View Post
Have you ever taken the Worlds Smallest Political Quiz? I have and I came out as a Libertarian.

I shuddered when I saw that.

It's not that I find fault with their idea of individualism. In fact, i favor it over the socialism being sold to American society by the Democrats. I agree with them over gun rights and that the government taxes the people too much. I agree with adult consentual sex (more on this) and that we should all be able to practice our religion freely without harassment (Democrats should take note). They believe in the right to own and do what you will with your own property and believe in a right to privacy. Libertarians believe in smaller government ... and so do I. For awhile, Libertarians and I seem to travel the same path joyfully ... but then we hit that proverbial crossroads and that is where we go our seperate ways.

1. Abortion: Libertarians are decidedly pro-choice. Their platform speaks of being responsible but yet complains about the burden of an unwanted pregnancy. With the lone exception of rape, where was the responsibility for not getting pregnant? How much are condoms? $7.50 - $8 a box? How easier is it just not to have sex? On their website they claim that life is sacred. If it is sacred, how can you condone abortion?
Your confusing being a Libertarian with being a libertarian. The first is being a member of the Libertarian Party the second is embracing the libertarian philosophy. There's plenty of pro-life libertarians.

Quote:
2. Sexuality and Gender: I agree that what two adults do behind closed doors is their own business. I really didn't care that Bill Clinton fooled around with Monica Lewisnky and neither should anyone else have. I don't care if you are gay but why does it have to be in the open? As I said, what you do behind closed doors is your concern. Do I have to see it?
Sticking your sexuality in someone's face is just plain rude, no matter what the oriantation.

Quote:
3. Pornography: Libertarians are proponents of pornography. Again, if it were just between two adults, I could care less. I dont rent the stuff nor do I watch it on the Internet. But ... now pornography is using underage children (who are not adults nor do they have the ability to decide what they want to do in life). The industry also tricks and lures foreign women into it as well. Pornography is now involved with human trafficking. Somehow, sex slavery just doesn't fit into a theory of personal responsibility.
Child porn and sex slavery are crimes (as they should be). The vast majority of porn isn't child porn and doesn't utilize sex slaves. As for "tricking and luring foreign women", well, so what? They're freely entering into a business agreement. What right do you or I have to tell them that they can't? Of course all bets are off if they are, in fact, forced into the arrangement...

Quote:
4. Persuasion vs Force: Um.. Somehow, i don't think that friendly persuasion is ever going to convince a criminal or a terrorist with a gun to lay down their arms or to not rob a house. Friendly persuasion is not going to stop drugs, prostitution or any other crime in this nation. Police are necessary to protect innocent people from villains.
Now you're just being hyperbolic. Libertarians believe that you should use persuasion as opposed to force when convincing someone to, for example, frequent your business or believe the way tat you do. No libertarian believes that you should try to persuade a home invader. Libertarians believe that you have every right to utilize force in that case. Now some libertarians believe that if your neighbor is being robed that you don't have a responsibility to interfere, but that's a minority view.

Quote:
5. Welfare: Libertarians want to do away with completely and rely totally on charities. If only every person in America were that giving. We're not. I think welfare should stay but it must be made clear that there will be a timetable for it. It's not a inheritance to pass onto your children.
Govenment has verry few legitimate uses. Welfare isn't one of them.

Quote:
6. Draft: Libertarians are against a draft and think that military service should be strictly voluntary. I don't see a slew of people lining up to fight in Iraq. While there are men playing video games and getting drunk, others are in country in Afghanistan and Iraq for their third or fourth tour of duty. So much for patriotism.
So what? Slavery is slavery, even if it's in pursuit of a just cause.

Quote:
7. Make drugs legal: I have personal fault with this idea. I have lost 2 very close friends to drugs. One was so high he slammed his car into the front end of a tractor trailer. The other, has burnt his brain cells to the point where he wanders public square and cannot remember his own name. Legalize drugs? I don't think so.
First off, I'm sorry for your losses.

However, it's the same argument that anti-gun forces use: people use them and hurt other people so we should ban them. What's wrong with simply enforcing the laws that we have to protect other people? Take alcohol, for example. Should drinking it be illegal or should driving while drunk be?

Quote:
Sadly, we agree on many things but we also agree to disagree on others.

I respect the conservatism and individualism of Libertarians, but that is where we must part. Although, they do have my respect.
That's how I feel about most conservatives! lol
__________________
A democracy is rule by the majority; a republic is the rule of law. This is a very critical distinction. – Steven LaTulippe


Democracy is a form of worship. It is the worship of Jackals by Jackasses. - H.L. Mencken

Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 05-24-2007, 03:15 PM
BFranklin76's Avatar
BFranklin76 BFranklin76 is offline
State Governor
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 260
Rep Power: 3236140
BFranklin76 has a reputation beyond reputeBFranklin76 has a reputation beyond reputeBFranklin76 has a reputation beyond reputeBFranklin76 has a reputation beyond reputeBFranklin76 has a reputation beyond reputeBFranklin76 has a reputation beyond reputeBFranklin76 has a reputation beyond reputeBFranklin76 has a reputation beyond reputeBFranklin76 has a reputation beyond reputeBFranklin76 has a reputation beyond reputeBFranklin76 has a reputation beyond reputeBFranklin76 has a reputation beyond reputeBFranklin76 has a reputation beyond reputeBFranklin76 has a reputation beyond reputeBFranklin76 has a reputation beyond reputeBFranklin76 has a reputation beyond reputeBFranklin76 has a reputation beyond reputeBFranklin76 has a reputation beyond reputeBFranklin76 has a reputation beyond reputeBFranklin76 has a reputation beyond repute
BFranklin76 has a reputation beyond reputeBFranklin76 has a reputation beyond reputeBFranklin76 has a reputation beyond reputeBFranklin76 has a reputation beyond reputeBFranklin76 has a reputation beyond reputeBFranklin76 has a reputation beyond reputeBFranklin76 has a reputation beyond reputeBFranklin76 has a reputation beyond reputeBFranklin76 has a reputation beyond reputeBFranklin76 has a reputation beyond reputeBFranklin76 has a reputation beyond reputeBFranklin76 has a reputation beyond reputeBFranklin76 has a reputation beyond reputeBFranklin76 has a reputation beyond reputeBFranklin76 has a reputation beyond reputeBFranklin76 has a reputation beyond reputeBFranklin76 has a reputation beyond reputeBFranklin76 has a reputation beyond reputeBFranklin76 has a reputation beyond reputeBFranklin76 has a reputation beyond repute
AddThis Social Bookmark Button AddThis Feed Button

US Flag

I believe the differences I've pointed out, however, are what keeps Libertarians and Republicans apart. As I've said, I agree with much of their platform with the noted exceptions.

In regards to charity I disagree. Although a lot of money was given by a lot of people, there were many more who just shrugged and did nothing. I gave give $20 of the $100 I had as an allotment while I was deployed to both the tsunami relief efforts and to Hurricane Katrina. I didn't have much but I gave. There were those who did have much but gave nothing (no, I am not a socialist, I am speaking of Christian charity here).

In my command (of about 180 people) only 76 gave to the Combined Federal Campaign Fund. This is even after the option was made to give to the charity of their choice directly. That is less than half of the people in the building and that is disgraceful.

In my early twenties, I took a class on economics. This was the 90s, so I went to class incognito (this was the Clinton Era after all). I never told anyone my background nor that I was in the US Navy. Our last class concerned government aid and welfare. The class, the vast majority of which came from privileged backgrounds, were openly hostile towards giving out any aid whatsoever. Sadly, I felt compelled to speak out. In 1972, Northeastern Pennsylvania was ravaged by Hurricane Agnes, one of the worst storms of the 20th Century. My family lost their home and our entire belongings to the waters of the Susquehanna River. We had no money or food. It was government helicopters and National Guardsmen who set up a refugee camp. For a short while, we lived off of government provided rations. We were even set up temporarily in a HUD trailer to live in while we repaired our home. It is because of this that I do support some form of government aid; even if only of a temporary nature.
__________________
Politics I supposed to be the second-oldest profession. I have come to realize that it bears a very close resemblance to the first. ~ Ronald Reagan

Last edited by BFranklin76 : 05-24-2007 at 03:20 PM. Reason: I goofed and misspelled a word.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 05-24-2007, 03:31 PM
BFranklin76's Avatar
BFranklin76 BFranklin76 is offline
State Governor
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 260
Rep Power: 3236140
BFranklin76 has a reputation beyond reputeBFranklin76 has a reputation beyond reputeBFranklin76 has a reputation beyond reputeBFranklin76 has a reputation beyond reputeBFranklin76 has a reputation beyond reputeBFranklin76 has a reputation beyond reputeBFranklin76 has a reputation beyond reputeBFranklin76 has a reputation beyond reputeBFranklin76 has a reputation beyond reputeBFranklin76 has a reputation beyond reputeBFranklin76 has a reputation beyond reputeBFranklin76 has a reputation beyond reputeBFranklin76 has a reputation beyond reputeBFranklin76 has a reputation beyond reputeBFranklin76 has a reputation beyond reputeBFranklin76 has a reputation beyond reputeBFranklin76 has a reputation beyond reputeBFranklin76 has a reputation beyond reputeBFranklin76 has a reputation beyond reputeBFranklin76 has a reputation beyond repute
BFranklin76 has a reputation beyond reputeBFranklin76 has a reputation beyond reputeBFranklin76 has a reputation beyond reputeBFranklin76 has a reputation beyond reputeBFranklin76 has a reputation beyond reputeBFranklin76 has a reputation beyond reputeBFranklin76 has a reputation beyond reputeBFranklin76 has a reputation beyond reputeBFranklin76 has a reputation beyond reputeBFranklin76 has a reputation beyond reputeBFranklin76 has a reputation beyond reputeBFranklin76 has a reputation beyond reputeBFranklin76 has a reputation beyond reputeBFranklin76 has a reputation beyond reputeBFranklin76 has a reputation beyond reputeBFranklin76 has a reputation beyond reputeBFranklin76 has a reputation beyond reputeBFranklin76 has a reputation beyond reputeBFranklin76 has a reputation beyond reputeBFranklin76 has a reputation beyond repute
AddThis Social Bookmark Button AddThis Feed Button

Quote:
Originally Posted by Taxman View Post
Your confusing being a Libertarian with being a libertarian. The first is being a member of the Libertarian Party the second is embracing the libertarian philosophy. There's plenty of pro-life libertarians.

I do not understand the difference.


Child porn and sex slavery are crimes (as they should be). The vast majority of porn isn't child porn and doesn't utilize sex slaves. As for "tricking and luring foreign women", well, so what? They're freely entering into a business agreement. What right do you or I have to tell them that they can't? Of course all bets are off if they are, in fact, forced into the arrangement...

Of this statement I must vigoriously object (A Few Good Men ..LOL). Tricking someone into a disreputable business is just completely inhuman. Pimping someone out is just plain wrong (it's similar to slavery). The training I just went to involving Human Trafficking given by the US Navy specifically stated that children and women are targeted by slavers and often are sold into prostitution and pornography. A human life is worth much more than someone's entertainment value.

Now you're just being hyperbolic. Libertarians believe that you should use persuasion as opposed to force when convincing someone to, for example, frequent your business or believe the way tat you do. No libertarian believes that you should try to persuade a home invader. Libertarians believe that you have every right to utilize force in that case. Now some libertarians believe that if your neighbor is being robed that you don't have a responsibility to interfere, but that's a minority view.

Thank you for clearing that up for me. I stand corrected.



Govenment has verry few legitimate uses. Welfare isn't one of them.

Please see my follow on post involving my own personal experiences.

So what? Slavery is slavery, even if it's in pursuit of a just cause.

Slavery is inhuman. It was obliterated in this nation by the Civil War and should forever remain a dead and buried practice.

First off, I'm sorry for your losses.

However, it's the same argument that anti-gun forces use: people use them and hurt other people so we should ban them. What's wrong with simply enforcing the laws that we have to protect other people? Take alcohol, for example. Should drinking it be illegal or should driving while drunk be?

I thank you for your condolences. I went to school (elementary and high school) with both of the men I spoke of. They once had bright futures but those futures were destroyed by drugs. This is my own opinion (and it is biased by my hatred of drug use so please forgive me) but drug dealers are as guilty as a person who commits genocide: it specifically seeks out and destroys the future. I have chased drug smugglers through the Caribbean with the US Navy. They are a disreputable lot who deserve their fate. They make their fortunes off of the lives of others. I agree that we should enforce the laws but this requires the use of police and, in certain circumstance, military force. In regards to alcohol, I do not drink. I gave it up as it did nothing but suck up my earnings and give me a headache.


That's how I feel about most conservatives! lol
Well, at least you were open and candid with your beliefs. I thank you.
__________________
Politics I supposed to be the second-oldest profession. I have come to realize that it bears a very close resemblance to the first. ~ Ronald Reagan
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 05-24-2007, 03:54 PM
RandomNY RandomNY is offline
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 5,167
Rep Power: 4264408
RandomNY has a reputation beyond reputeRandomNY has a reputation beyond reputeRandomNY has a reputation beyond reputeRandomNY has a reputation beyond reputeRandomNY has a reputation beyond reputeRandomNY has a reputation beyond reputeRandomNY has a reputation beyond reputeRandomNY has a reputation beyond reputeRandomNY has a reputation beyond reputeRandomNY has a reputation beyond reputeRandomNY has a reputation beyond reputeRandomNY has a reputation beyond reputeRandomNY has a reputation beyond reputeRandomNY has a reputation beyond reputeRandomNY has a reputation beyond reputeRandomNY has a reputation beyond reputeRandomNY has a reputation beyond reputeRandomNY has a reputation beyond reputeRandomNY has a reputation beyond reputeRandomNY has a reputation beyond repute
RandomNY has a reputation beyond reputeRandomNY has a reputation beyond reputeRandomNY has a reputation beyond reputeRandomNY has a reputation beyond reputeRandomNY has a reputation beyond reputeRandomNY has a reputation beyond reputeRandomNY has a reputation beyond reputeRandomNY has a reputation beyond reputeRandomNY has a reputation beyond reputeRandomNY has a reputation beyond reputeRandomNY has a reputation beyond reputeRandomNY has a reputation beyond reputeRandomNY has a reputation beyond reputeRandomNY has a reputation beyond reputeRandomNY has a reputation beyond reputeRandomNY has a reputation beyond reputeRandomNY has a reputation beyond reputeRandomNY has a reputation beyond reputeRandomNY has a reputation beyond reputeRandomNY has a reputation beyond repute
AddThis Social Bookmark Button AddThis Feed Button

Franklin... If there was zero government aid given out, and the TRILLIONS that is wasted is returned to the public, I can guarntee you, there would have been help for you and your family most likely through the Salvation Army or the RED CROSS, or some religious organization(the Johavs Witness always spend millions helping people help themselves every year)...

Look at how many homes are being rebuilt in New Orleans with private donations, TV makeover shows, Oprah flatout paying for new homes with her money, etc...

FEMA is still being chastied for spending millions for trailers that have never been used, for giving out $2000 debit cards and not even caring what the money is being spent on, then people are shocked that some of the aid is being used for drugs or TV's or other stuff not even remotely going to aid people get their lives back...

The amount of money private donations to the NO area because of Katrina was more than the money donated after the 9/11 attacks...

Using the national guard to setup refugee camps or rescuing stranded people, is one thing, but people standing in line for FEMA to just hand out cash is another..
(On a side note to my above point, in Houston there was a table setup for people looking for work and people looking for FEMA money, the line for FEMA money was a mile long, the line to get hired to go back to NO and start rebuilding had a few Mexican people on it. When asked the Mexican people(it was a husband and wife)both said they want to work and start a family.

And don't get me started on why people who live in a hurricane zone should understand and have insurance for the time when they get hit with a hurricane..

And then look at what happends, there were people where I am on Long Island after what was left of Katrina came through here with flooded basements screaming and yelling that they deserve FEMA money also.. What happends the next time a hurricane hits NO(which will happend since that area has been flooded out almost 30 times in it's 300 year history), should we just throw hundreds of billions of tax dollars at that area again and again, or let people understand the consequences for living in the bullseye of a hurricane prone area..

Same for people living in the Tornado belt...
__________________
I pledge to treat Barry Milhouse Obama with the same respect that the left treated George W. Bush with for 8 years.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 05-24-2007, 03:58 PM
Taxman's Avatar
Taxman Taxman is offline
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 3,210
Rep Power: 1687386
Taxman has a reputation beyond reputeTaxman has a reputation beyond reputeTaxman has a reputation beyond reputeTaxman has a reputation beyond reputeTaxman has a reputation beyond reputeTaxman has a reputation beyond reputeTaxman has a reputation beyond reputeTaxman has a reputation beyond reputeTaxman has a reputation beyond reputeTaxman has a reputation beyond reputeTaxman has a reputation beyond reputeTaxman has a reputation beyond reputeTaxman has a reputation beyond reputeTaxman has a reputation beyond reputeTaxman has a reputation beyond reputeTaxman has a reputation beyond reputeTaxman has a reputation beyond reputeTaxman has a reputation beyond reputeTaxman has a reputation beyond reputeTaxman has a reputation beyond repute
Taxman has a reputation beyond reputeTaxman has a reputation beyond reputeTaxman has a reputation beyond reputeTaxman has a reputation beyond reputeTaxman has a reputation beyond reputeTaxman has a reputation beyond reputeTaxman has a reputation beyond reputeTaxman has a reputation beyond reputeTaxman has a reputation beyond reputeTaxman has a reputation beyond reputeTaxman has a reputation beyond reputeTaxman has a reputation beyond reputeTaxman has a reputation beyond reputeTaxman has a reputation beyond reputeTaxman has a reputation beyond reputeTaxman has a reputation beyond reputeTaxman has a reputation beyond reputeTaxman has a reputation beyond reputeTaxman has a reputation beyond reputeTaxman has a reputation beyond repute
AddThis Social Bookmark Button AddThis Feed Button

Quote:
Originally Posted by BFranklin76 View Post
I do not understand the difference.
Think of it this way: Not everyone who believes in republicanism is a Republican, right? It's the same thing with the difference between being a "Big L" libertarian and being a "small l" libertarian.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BFranklin76
Of this statement I must vigoriously object (A Few Good Men ..LOL). Tricking someone into a disreputable business is just completely inhuman. Pimping someone out is just plain wrong (it's similar to slavery). The training I just went to involving Human Trafficking given by the US Navy specifically stated that children and women are targeted by slavers and often are sold into prostitution and pornography. A human life is worth much more than someone's entertainment value.
But then we're not talking about a free contract anymore, we're talking about slavery. I wholeheartedly agree that should be vigorously dealt with.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BFranklin76
Please see my follow on post involving my own personal experiences.
I can appreciate that you were helped by government action. However (and I think this is where we're going to have to just agree to disagree) who had to be harmed in order for the government to help you? Hurricanes and floods aren't some new phenomena, they've been delt with for a long time by communities helping each other without forcing someone 3,000 miles away to pony up the cost.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BFranklin76
Slavery is inhuman. It was obliterated in this nation by the Civil War and should forever remain a dead and buried practice.
And yet, that's exactly what the draft your talking about entails. As a former ground pounder let me tell you, I'd rather have one guy who voluteered to be there than 20 losers who were forced to drop the Cheetos and pick up a M-16A2 by uncle Sam.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BFranklin76
I thank you for your condolences. I went to school (elementary and high school) with both of the men I spoke of. They once had bright futures but those futures were destroyed by drugs. This is my own opinion (and it is biased by my hatred of drug use so please forgive me) but drug dealers are as guilty as a person who commits genocide: it specifically seeks out and destroys the future. I have chased drug smugglers through the Caribbean with the US Navy. They are a disreputable lot who deserve their fate. They make their fortunes off of the lives of others.
But it isn't the substances that caused them to be criminals. As I'm sure that you can attest, they're in it for the money and it wouldn't matter if they were smuggling cocaine or hair brushes. They just care about what will bring them the greatest return.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BFranklin76
I agree that we should enforce the laws but this requires the use of police and, in certain circumstance, military force.
Yep, and those are both reasonable government activities.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BFranklin76
In regards to alcohol, I do not drink. I gave it up as it did nothing but suck up my earnings and give me a headache.
I've had those mornings too...

Quote:
Originally Posted by BFranklin76
Well, at least you were open and candid with your beliefs. I thank you.
My pleasure, sir.
__________________
A democracy is rule by the majority; a republic is the rule of law. This is a very critical distinction. – Steven LaTulippe


Democracy is a form of worship. It is the worship of Jackals by Jackasses. - H.L. Mencken

Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
My faults with Libertarianism BFranklin76 Liberalism Vs. Conservatism (Debate Forum) 0 05-24-2007 12:28 AM
Clinton Faults Bush for Inaction on bin Laden Fuzzball Liberalism Vs. Conservatism (Debate Forum) 1 09-26-2006 05:09 PM
Libertarianism noneyet Liberalism Vs. Conservatism (Debate Forum) 14 10-30-2003 12:44 PM
Even a Republican/Conservative god has faults (By Yukon) The Finman Liberalism Vs. Conservatism (Debate Forum) 4 01-07-2003 03:07 PM


All times are GMT -3. The time now is 01:32 AM.
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
RonaldReagan.com is the property of Techsure LLC ©1996-2008


 
Page generated in 0.19202 seconds with 10 queries