The 4 Freedoms

[RandomNY]

Its replacing the idea of "self-rule" even among Republicans. You see it when we push democracy is the best form of government without really understanding democracy is not much better than socialism. Its still slavery to the government. In democracy its the majority enslaving the minority.


So we should live in a world of MINORITY enslaving the Majority?

The gays first "only" wanted "Civil Union" they got that in certain states and now it has to be marriage.. Umm went 2 gay men can reproduce without the use of a third person or adopt then I will accept gay marriage.. Or if society as a whole accepts it WHICH IT DOESN'T RIGHT NOW.. Ultra-Liberal Oregon, Ultra-Liberal Michigan, liberal Louisiana, and now Ultra-Liberal California have all voted against gay marriage..

So until the Federal gov't comes up with the law and law is debated and then put into law happends..

Then the gays need to calm down.. This is no where close to what Blacks went through before the 1964 Civil Rights act...

Noone is forcing gay people to use "Gay only" bathrooms or water fountains or schools...

In my opinoin this will be dealt with at the Federal Level and not by the Obama adminstration(he never supported Gay Marriage), but eventually the people will be in place in Congress to write the legislation and it will be debated and voted on like how every other law should be.. Then it will be accepted...

Then the Divorce lawyers will be making boat loads of cash hand over fist..

[politicalboy]

As P.C as this doesn't sound they should be made to use thier own bathrooms, drink out of thier water fountains.
Today, we are soft, during a time of war we sympathize with the enemy, the country becomes split over the waterboarding issue. They say America should be held to a standard higher than others.
Funny, when God instructed the Israelites to cross the Jordan and make war, he did not call for political correctness and did not ask that his people reach out and understand the enemy, what he did say is destroy every thing that walks or crawls, do not put yourself in a position to be seduced by thier beliefs, thier Gods, thier idols.
Gays want understanding, they want sympathy for an abomonational act, they want to force the unnaturalness of thier acts upon the majority, by all rights we should squash them, but today, in the latter day the laws will not allow that kind of action. So what we are left with is the sum of all evils. We have no choice but to live among abomination to let it infiltrate our young, through teachers, head start programs, they are infiltrating some denomonational positions of clergy. This is how the door is open for the wrath of God to run the dirty water out of the longstanding hose. When the infrastructure itself is compromised then the Lord takes over, in his time. There has never, ever been an instance where this isn't the end result, now is no differant. My plan is to stay close to him.

[independant_ant]

Well in the law it says "marriage" is the religious ceremony that a man and a woman publicly undertake saying they agree to live with each other for life. If gay marriage is allowed, then the whole law "definition" is altered. So basically that means if gays are allowed to marry, for example, if you were a student, your teacher could marry you without approval of your parents, and the law can't stop that person because they violated the meaning of marriage by allowing gays to marry.

[NeverCryWolf]

I might take some hits here on this subject ... but I am completely opposed against Gay Marriage! I am ok with Civil Unions ... but I draw the line on Gay Marriages ... at some point we have to draw a line in the sand ... and say enough is enough! Our society is already degrading at an alarming rate, and my church has been targeted by violence multiple times since the passing of Prop 8, and then they want us to be open minded, and sit down at the table!

Try gay marriage in say Cuba, Venezuela, or some Middle Eastern Country ... and see if they give you the current rights that you have now!

You can be gay, I don't have a problem with that. Please don't destroy my place of worship, and don't expect me to give up my values!

Sorry ... just had to state my mind!

Wolf

[jnr mom]

I hate the "it's my way or the highway" mentality that gays have.. They throw hissy fits when they don't get their way.. All they are doing is embarassing themselves and looking ridiculous, basically hurting their cause.

[NeverCryWolf]

Thanks Jnr Mom,

It's time that we take a stand ... and fight for our morals, values, and principles!

Amen,
Wolf

[Sci Fi Fan]

Originally Posted by RandomNY

Its replacing the idea of "self-rule" even among Republicans. You see it when we push democracy is the best form of government without really understanding democracy is not much better than socialism. Its still slavery to the government. In democracy its the majority enslaving the minority.

Pot, kettle, black. Can someone explain to me why a straight couple has the right to stop their gay neighbors from doing some that doesn't affect them at all?

The gays first "only" wanted "Civil Union" they got that in certain states and now it has to be marriage.. Umm went 2 gay men can reproduce without the use of a third person or adopt then I will accept gay marriage..

Then explain why sterile couples can marry.

Or if society as a whole accepts it WHICH IT DOESN'T RIGHT NOW.. Ultra-Liberal Oregon, Ultra-Liberal Michigan, liberal Louisiana, and now Ultra-Liberal California have all voted against gay marriage..

Since when is what is popular always right, and vice versa?

So until the Federal gov't comes up with the law and law is debated and then put into law happends..

Then the gays need to calm down.. This is no where close to what Blacks went through before the 1964 Civil Rights act...

The obstacles may not be the same (although gay bullying is no small issue), but the logic being used against gay and interracial marriage is equivalent, almost word for word.

Noone is forcing gay people to use "Gay only" bathrooms or water fountains or schools...

Yet you're forcing them to have a "gay only" civil union. And marriage strikes many as being more important than bathroom use.

In my opinoin this will be dealt with at the Federal Level and not by the Obama adminstration(he never supported Gay Marriage), but eventually the people will be in place in Congress to write the legislation and it will be debated and voted on like how every other law should be.. Then it will be accepted...

Then the Divorce lawyers will be making boat loads of cash hand over fist..

Funny fact: gay couples get divorced at a lower rate than straight couples. But just ignore the f word, and pamper to illogical, knee jerk prejudices instead, right?

It seems to me that the entire movement against gay marriage is based on the obsession with adhering to an illogical set of traditional values that exist for no reason other than you were brainwashed into believing them, from birth. That, and an inability for your conscious and logical mind to override your primal (and, yet again, irrational) fear of gayness.

[Warhawk1982]

Originally Posted by Sci Fi Fan

Pot, kettle, black. Can someone explain to me why a straight couple has the right to stop their gay neighbors from doing some that doesn't affect them at all?

You mean the perverse sodomy in which they engage? Or their attempts to silence any and all opponents through threats of violence? Sounds like gestapo tactics to me.

Originally Posted by Sci Fi Fan

Then explain why sterile couples can marry.

What's with this prejudice against sterile people?

Originally Posted by Sci Fi Fan

Since when is what is popular always right, and vice versa?

It's democracy in action. The majority doesn't want it. It's a simple fact.

Originally Posted by Sci Fi Fan

The obstacles may not be the same (although gay bullying is no small issue), but the logic being used against gay and interracial marriage is equivalent, almost word for word.

Interracial marriage is not illegal.

Originally Posted by Sci Fi Fan

Yet you're forcing them to have a "gay only" civil union. And marriage strikes many as being more important than bathroom use.

Yeah, like tax breaks and health insurance.

Originally Posted by Sci Fi Fan

Funny fact: gay couples get divorced at a lower rate than straight couples. But just ignore the f word, and pamper to illogical, knee jerk prejudices instead, right?

Funnier fact: The low gay divorce rates are due to the openness of a gay relationship.

Originally Posted by Sci Fi Fan

It seems to me that the entire movement against gay marriage is based on the obsession with adhering to an illogical set of traditional values that exist for no reason other than you were brainwashed into believing them, from birth. That, and an inability for your conscious and logical mind to override your primal (and, yet again, irrational) fear of gayness.

Illogical traditional values? America is based upon tradition. Our Constitution, our beliefs, our very way of life is due to our traditions. So all across the country tomorrow's barbecues and fireworks shows should be cancelled because they are illogical traditions. I mean, just because your country was born over 200 years ago doesn't mean you shouldn't have to work like on any other day. While we're at it, why not cancel all holidays? Not just the religious ones like Christmas or Easter, but Halloween, President's Day, and Martin Luther King Day because they're illogical traditions. This may be cliche' but, maybe you and your gay friends would be happier in a neighboring socialist country where they can marry, like canada. I mean, you don't have to stay in the US just because you were born here or anything. It's just another illogical tradition to stay where you were born. Would it not be more logical to go where you can already have these rights and not busy yourself with trying to convert your current country?

[Sci Fi Fan]

Originally Posted by andophiroxia

Remember guys, this is what you need to reiterate to any liberal that decides to throw whatever you believe in your face of whether it be religion or any other thing that they want to throw in to be petty.

Oh, right. Because we all understand it is logical to base your argument on unchangeable ideologies, rather than critical thinking.

Personal freedom: individual independence, secret ballot, one man, one vote, freedom of action, travel, place to live.

Then why did conservatives fight tooth and nail against the decriminalization of homosexuality, and now not only oppose gay marriage, but also pornography and prostitution? Why do conservatives support the PA?

Economic freedom: Freedom to negotiate for your wage, freedom to start a business, amass capital, and supply the demand for your product or service; freedom to buy what you want, when you want it.

The mainstream position of the left does not oppose any of this, so you're just committing an implicit strawman here. Of course, it's much more difficult to exercise these freedoms when people are making it big by playing politics and rigging the system rather than honest hard work, thus taking money away from the middle class and honest citizens.

People think laissez faire encourages hard work and innovation. It doesn't. It encourages manipulation of the invisible hand, an abstract entity with no intelligent safeguards and loopholes that are ridiculously simple to manipulate, if you have money, some cunning and surgically remove your conscience.

Religious freedom: Freedom to worship as you choose, without interference by the State.

Then you support the notion that the United States is a secular state, and not a "Christian" nation.

Political freedom: Freedom to join the political movement of your choice, or to not be a member of any political movement; freedom to express your political ideas without fear of reprisal.

Patriot Act.

Not that your rhetoric is relevant, when liberals not only support political freedom, but have historically fought in favor of them. Remember when the conservative Supreme Court ruled that one can imprison communists because they are a danger to the state? Yeah.

[Warhawk1982]

Originally Posted by Sci Fi Fan

Oh, right. Because we all understand it is logical to base your argument on unchangeable ideologies, rather than critical thinking.

Critical thinking? Is that the "intelligent" definition of "emotionally based" these days?

Originally Posted by Sci Fi Fan

Then why did conservatives fight tooth and nail against the decriminalization of homosexuality, and now not only oppose gay marriage, but also pornography and prostitution? Why do conservatives support the PA?

Because conservatives know wrong when they see it.

Originally Posted by Sci Fi Fan

The mainstream position of the left does not oppose any of this, so you're just committing an implicit strawman here. Of course, it's much more difficult to exercise these freedoms when people are making it big by playing politics and rigging the system rather than honest hard work, thus taking money away from the middle class and honest citizens.

Yeah, like forcing them to buy overpriced health insurance, even if they dont want it, and raising their taxes.

Originally Posted by Sci Fi Fan

People think laissez faire encourages hard work and innovation. It doesn't. It encourages manipulation of the invisible hand, an abstract entity with no intelligent safeguards and loopholes that are ridiculously simple to manipulate, if you have money, some cunning and surgically remove your conscience.

Sorry you didn't get that six figure job, I know what that's like.

Originally Posted by Sci Fi Fan

Then you support the notion that the United States is a secular state, and not a "Christian" nation.

Freedom OF worship, not freedom FROM worship.

Originally Posted by Sci Fi Fan

Patriot Act.

Then why are tsa complaints under janet napolitano's DHS double what they were after 9/11?

Originally Posted by Sci Fi Fan

Not that your rhetoric is relevant, when liberals not only support political freedom, but have historically fought in favor of them. Remember when the conservative Supreme Court ruled that one can imprison communists because they are a danger to the state? Yeah.

communist spies were everywhere in the '40s and '50s. They even infiltrated the Manhattan Project. Interesting how liberals say they support political freedom yet practically worship a guy who executed his political rivals after helping conquer his country.