Why is Race an issue?

[Dutch]

Will some of the pointy-headed lefties or their European/Australian counterparts please take a moment and explain to me how Race is an issue in America?

I hear the left and people from other nations speaking about Racism in America and how this is an issue that does not speak well for America, but I need someone on the left who feels Racism is a problem in America to please expound.

Any takers from the crowd that professes to understand so much more than the average white Republican/Conservative male?

[LeadBelly]

Great question! This might be helpful:

The meaning of the earthshaking events in Los Angeles [in 1992] is difficult to grasp because most of us remain trapped in the narrow framework of the dominant liberal and conservative views of race in America, which with its worn-out vocabulary leaves us intellectually debilitated, morally disempowered, and personally depressed. The astonishing disappearance of the event from public dialog is testimony to just how painful and distressing a serious engagement with race is. Our truncated public discussions of race suppress the best of who and what we are as a people because they fail to confront the complexity of the issue in a candid and critical manner. The predictable pitting of liberals against conservatives, Great Society Democrats against self-help Republicans, reinforces intellectual parochialism and political paralysis.

The liberal notion that more government programs can solve racial problems is simplistic---precisely because it focuses solely on the economic dimension. And the conservative idea that what is needed is a change in the moral behavior of poor black urban dwellers (especially poor black men, who, they say, should stay married, support their children, and stop committing so much crime) highlights immoral actions while ignoring public responsibility for the immoral circumstances that haunt our fellow citizens.

---From Race Matters , by Cornel West (copyright 1993)

[Potorik]

I'm a minority, and I don't know what all the liberals are talking about when they talk about racism and minority rights. I feel like I have all the rights as the rest of the people. The only time I felt different was when I went to the airport and they checked my shoes at every checkpoint and stuff. But thats understandable, seeing as how I fit the terrorist image. I was actually glad they checked me so many times. Sure I got a bit tired of it, but hey, who cares, I had nothing to hide. What amazes me is how all these completely white democrats and liberals go out and talk about how 'violated' the minorities feel and 'racial profiling' They don't know how it feels, all they do is use it as a tool. Me and most of my terrorist looking friends do not care one bit about being checked so much at the airport. Another thing I'm reminded about is how people say women have better rights in all those socialist liberal countries. I remember how my teacher kept saying that there's a 'glass ceiling' in corporate America and how women and minorities can't get high paying jobs. The next day I brought in a list of women CEO's and stuff, it was about 2 pages long. That shut him up

[Dutch]

Okay Leadbelly, thanks for answering.

Now as for your answer I need to ask you why you think the complete and utter breakdown of law and order should be excused under the auspices of poor race relations?

If that is your assumption then surely the corollary of poor race relations are fomented within the majority towards the group consistently disregarding society’s law and order must also be accepted as an axiom.

But more to the point of my question, I want to know why some think there is a Race issue in America.

[Dutch]

Potorik,

I am glad to know you.

Blessings,

Dutch

[Potorik]

aww shucks [img]embarrased.gif[/img]

[curious]

Well Dutch, this "pointy headed libral" doesn't profess to know any more about race than anyone else, including conservatives. But I'll take a stab at your question.

I will say -- even though I'm a pointy headed liberal -- that I don't believe race is necessarily a bigger issue in the US than in other nations. In fact, we're probably better in that regard than in many parts of the world, where ethnic divisions are much worse and even more violent.

Racism is ingrained in human nature. It's tribalism that extends back throughout our history. However, that doesn't let us off the hook for the problems that do exist, nor should it excuse us from efforts to reach towards a truly color-blind society.

I agree with the quote by Cornell West that was posted above. In discussions of race, we often get sidetracked from honest examinations of race by the cliches and false divisions.

I have a question to you. Do you think race isn't an issue? You think we live in a totally race-neutral society where a very black youth raised in the ghetto has an equal chance in life as a rich young WASP?

It's also important to remember that it was not very long ago that blacks did not even have equal citizenship. Many people alive today (including yours truly) can vivdly remember when the nation was torn apart by blacks' efforts to even gain the basic right to vote.

Ignoring the problem was not how society advanced beyond that ingrained oppression. It required hell-raising and turbulance to change the situation, and to foster an evolution away from the prevalent oppressive racist attitudes.... And, at the time, civil rights adviocates were critized by conservatives as "liberal meddlers" and "uppity negroes."

And the scars and the economic results of over two centuries of enslavement and then exclusion and opression of an entire race don't disappear overnight. Or even in 30 years.

As society and as individuals we have two choices. We can look at racism honestly -- and try and get beyond the cliches of both right and left to deal with it and look for productive solutions.....Or we can be the modern equivalent of those obstructionists in the 50's and 60's who felt that if we just ignore the problem it will go away.

[LeadBelly]

Originally posted by Dutch:
Now as for your answer I need to ask you why you think the complete and utter breakdown of law and order should be excused under the auspices of poor race relations?

Highly recommend the book. His first paragraph doesn't excuse the riots, and points out that a large percentage of the rioters were white and/or employed. The limits we as a society place on a serious discussion about race also limit the complexity with which we can understand other things. We debate oversimplifications, not the actual issues.

As to the point of your question..., if you're saying there's not a problem, why ask the question? If you believe there is a problem, then instead of asking "pointy-headed lefties" to explain, maybe you should be asking the guys with the pointy-hoods. Nobody's makes a bigger deal out of race in the country than them, and they've been doing it a lot longer.

Or here's two great examples of race-based problems we're having in America.

[Dutch]

Originally posted by curious:
Well Dutch, this "pointy headed libral" doesn't profess to know any more about race than anyone else, including conservatives. But I'll take a stab at your question.

I will say -- even though I'm a pointy headed liberal -- that I don't believe race is necessarily a bigger issue in the US than in other nations. In fact, we're probably better in that regard than in many parts of the world, where ethnic divisions are much worse and even more violent.

Bravo Curious! Very well stated!

Originally posted by curious:
Racism is ingrained in human nature. It's tribalism that extends back throughout our history. However, that doesn't let us off the hook for the problems that do exist, nor should it excuse us from efforts to reach towards a truly color-blind society.

I agree with the quote by Cornell West that was posted above. In discussions of race, we often get sidetracked from honest examinations of race by the cliches and false divisions.

Keep in mind that race by the clichés cuts both ways. Whites are not the only people capable of being racists and more often then not; it is the white guy that gets discriminated against when the word “diversity” enters the picture.

Originally posted by curious:
I have a question to you. Do you think race isn't an issue?

Yes, here in America race isn’t an issue. The same cannot be said for the preponderance of the other nations around the globe, but name for me one country where everyone is equal.

Originally posted by curious:
You think we live in a totally race-neutral society where a very black youth raised in the ghetto has an equal chance in life as a rich young WASP?

I guess you don’t watch football, baseball, basketball, tennis, golf, and boxing, et al. Tell me, do you listen to music at all? Do you go to any AMERICAN made movies? I know you would be hard-pressed to find a black guy in European movies; but other than Large Yacht Racing there is a wide array of blacks and browns at the top (or very near it) in every American industry.

Originally posted by curious:
It's also important to remember that it was not very long ago that blacks did not even have equal citizenship. Many people alive today (including yours truly) can vivdly remember when the nation was torn apart by Black's efforts to even gain the basic right to vote.

Thank God for the Republicans that made that happen. Amazing how the compassionate left was on the wrong side of that issue as well.

Originally posted by curious:
Ignoring the problem did not make us advance as a society to the point where blacks have equal citizenship and the ability to participate. It required hell-raising and turbulance to change the situation, and to foster an evolution away from the prevalent oppressive racist attitudes.... And, at the time, civil rights adviocates were critized by conservatives as "liberal meddlers" and "uppity negroes."

Check your facts; in fact, name me the Conservatives (or just one) that you are speaking of. It was Conservatives like Charleston Heston that marched alongside MLK.

Liberals always talk about making things better; Conservatives actually do something to make things better.

Originally posted by curious:
And the scars and the economic results of over two centuries of enslavement and then exclusion and opression of an entire race don't disappear overnight. Or even in 30 years.

As society and as individuals we have two choices. We can look at racism honestly -- and try and get beyond the cliches of both right and left to deal with it and look for productive solutions.....Or we can be the modern equivalent of those obstructionists in the 50's and 60's who felt that if we just ignore the problem it will go away.

It was only do to the bending our will and the opportunities presented by America that blacks went from wearing chains to owning large business in less than seven generations. Nowhere in the world can you name a group of people whose fortunes reversed as quickly and as dramatically as black Americans.

The whole point of my initial question is that race relations within other nations around the world are no even close to being on a par with the exemplary race relations we have here in America. Yet that fact never stops someone from making the charge just because it is an accusation most fear defending against since it somehow implies a false opposition to improving race relations.

[Dutch]

Originally posted by LeadBelly:
Highly recommend the book. His first paragraph doesn't excuse the riots, and points out that a large percentage of the rioters were white and/or employed.

Well then someone needs to call the news media and have them point the cameras on another section of the mob during the riots.

Originally posted by LeadBelly:
The limits we as a society place on a serious discussion about race also limit the complexity with which we can understand other things. We debate oversimplifications, not the actual issues.

As to the point of your question..., if you're saying there's not a problem, why ask the question? If you believe there is a problem, then instead of asking "pointy-headed lefties" to explain, maybe you should be asking the guys with the pointy-hoods. Nobody's makes a bigger deal out of race in the country than them, and they've been doing it a lot longer.

Or here's two great examples of race-based problems we're having in America.

Don’t forget to include the Nation of Islam and the New Black Panther for self-defense (which is basically the same group as the old Black Panthers, except they now enjoy a 501(c) 3 status) when identifying those who only exist to accentuate, exacerbate, and promulgate race problems.

Why I asked the question in the manner I did was due to a fatigue over hearing the left and foreigners berate America over race. I think it is an empty charge that should always be countered.